Halfway to my scheduled interview with NSW’s Attorney-General Gabrielle Upton I look down with some dismay. I’d forgotten to swap my shoes.
Thanks to a new Fitbit faze I’ve taken to wearing flat shoes at almost all-times in a bid to edge closer to the 10,000 step goal, each day. It’s too late to turn around so I proceed.
Upton arrives in almost-identical flats and isn’t exactly how I’d imagined her to be. As expected the diminutive finance lawyer, investment banker, MBA graduate and Liberal politician is sharp and smart. But she is also understated, considered and incredibly real, which sounds ridiculous but it is not a quality that politicians necessarily exhibit.
A few minutes into our conversation, her phone rings. She apologises, explains it’s her 13-year old daughter and answers.
“Hi Sweetie. Is everything ok or can I call you back?”
A short conversation about household jobs ensues before Upton resumes our conversation where we left off. (Washing the dog, is considered a suitable job). It proves her point about being a comfortable multi-tasker nicely.
Her appointment as NSW’s first female Attorney-General earlier this year was historic but Upton deflects.
She laughs as she remembers her mum’s response to the news, which was that Upton had “exceeded their expectations”. “I wasn’t immediately sure if that was a compliment or not!” Upton remarks.
It was, as she acknowledges how supportive and proud her parents are.
“I didn’t set out to prove something to my parents or anyone else. I’ve never felt that. I am very internally driven,” she explains.
“Some people wake up when they’re 15 and decide that they’re going to be a politician and it may be because they saw something on the TV or they had some experience that brought them to Parliament or they have a very political home environment. I had none of that.”
She was always interested in politics but didn’t have a career plan mapped out. She studied Arts Law at UNSW where she had some involvement in student politics. From uni she went to the firm that was Freehills Hollingdale and Page and worked in banking and finance law for five years.
In 1993 she moved to the United States and undertook an MBA at New York University. From there she moved in Investment Banking with Deutsche Bank and Toronto Dominion Bank. Upon moving back to Australia, Upton decided to pursue politics.
“I didn’t have the capacity in the states to get politically active because I wasn’t a citizen. I joined the Liberal party and really since there it’s been an evolution.”
There are many ways to become involved with a political party and Upton approached it in a few different ways. In 1995 she put her hand up to run for the senate but she wasn’t successful.
“It seems like a long time ago now, but that was my first go at the competitive side of politics. I didn’t win so that was really what made me think, ‘That was really hard but it’s okay. I’m still feeling like I want to do it.’”
Despite being “devastated” she stayed focus.
“I suppose at that point I got much more involved in planning towards what might be a political career. Things like that just don’t fall into your lap. You have a plan about where you think an opportunity might be,” Upton says.
Leadership roles raring materialise, in any field, without considerable commitment and hard work which is what Upton focused on. In 2010 her efforts were rewarded when she won pre-selection for the retiring minister’s seat in Vaucluse in Sydney’s eastern suburbs.
“The minister was retiring and because I was reasonably senior and I knew that I really wanted that job, I was able to credibly put up my hand and I knew what I needed to do to win and I did,” she says.
Upon being elected in 2011 Upton was made a parliamentary secretary straight away.
“It was fantastic because immediately I got to do some policy work.”
In 2013 Upton was appointed as the Minister for Sport and Recreation and in 2014, after a reshuffle prompted by the-then Premier Barry O’Farrell she was appointed as the Minister for Family and Community Services. In April this year the new Premier Mike Baird offered her the Attorney-General portfolio.
She credits a combination of luck and hard work for her achievements.
“There is a bit of luck in you being there at the right time but it’s also having the skills and meeting the requirements of the job, and then really working hard.”
On questions related to her gender Upton tends to deflect but she praises Mike Baird for appointing a diverse Cabinet.
“When I look around our Cabinet table, it’s a diverse bunch and gender is only one component of the diversity,” Upton says. “We’ve got some elder statesmen of politics who have been involved for 30 years, I’ve been in politics for 4 years and our youngest member of cabinet would be mid 30s. That’s amazing because
we’ve got a 40 year span of perspective at the table.”
In her own role, diversity is something she considers as a matter of course whether in making appointments within government or briefing barristers.
“I think diversity is incredibly important and so when we’re compiling shortlists or reviewing policies, I want to see women in the mix and I want to see other forms of diversity too,” she says. “It’s not just putting a women into the mix to tick the box that you’ve got a woman. It’s about putting women in the mix who are skilled and capable.”
Upton says if a shortlist is presented to her without a woman she wants honest feedback. “If they couldn’t find a woman with the particular skills, I want to know that. It will help me understand where the problems are and then we can ask what we can do about that?”
Being Attorney-General is a challenging role of the “7-days a week, 24 hours a day” variety but for Upton it’s easier than some of the other jobs she’s had.
“Some of my other jobs were fantastic but they were too hard for me in some ways because it didn’t give me what I get out of this. I work harder in this role but it feels really good because I don’t take for granted I’ll be here for a long time. I wouldn’t spend my days doing anything else and that’s very satisfying.”
She is also aware and grateful that this isn’t a job she necessarily could have done at other points in her life.
“In my career, I’ve worked part time on occasions but could I work as a part time minister? No, because the expectation is that you’re there 24/7 so maybe there would have been another part in my life professionally where I couldn’t have done this job. I feel very lucky the opportunity rose when I could make that big commitment.”
Notwithstanding the enormity of the job, Upton is resolute that work is only one part of life.
“I say to all the people who work with me here, ‘Your family is the constant meaning in your life’ but jobs come and go,” she says. “It doesn’t mean you don’t take them really seriously and commit to them but you have to have something else. It’s a strength to have strong relationships outside work because you have a perspective on things that you’re making decisions about.”
When we touch on the subject of how Upton manages her working life and her family life she has plenty of advice.
As a starting point her own mother worked and also had 4 kids so a career and motherhood never struck Upton as mutually exclusive.
She’s a list-lover and is comfortable multi-tasking and dipping in and out of work and regular exercise is non-negotiable.
She has a supportive husband who really understands her work. “There’s not that tug of war when your partner might say, ‘Well, can’t you come home? This is just ridiculous. You’ve been out 4 nights a week’,” she says. “In the early days, when my kids were younger, my mother in law was a really great help and she was available to give us that help so I didn’t have any pangs of guilt.”
Now they have a nanny who helps too.
“I think you’ve got to be honest about what makes it possible. If you’re lucky enough to have a supportive partner and extra help, and I think I’m very very very lucky, it’s easier. If you don’t have those things, I think it would be very hard to have a very demanding job.”
As one of her staffers walks out with me, I comment that she’s an impressive woman. With genuine affection he comments that he’s never worked with anyone as effective or efficient as “the Boss”.
Upton cites luck often, but I am quite sure that’s the least of it.