Today on International Day of the Girl, Plan International Australia CEO Susanne Legena speaks with 17-year-old Plan youth activist Lena Nabizada on the unique barriers facing girls in conflict settings, her own experience as a young girl in Afghanistan and the women and girls that inspire her to continue advocating for equality. This is an edited version of the conversation.
Susanne: It’s the week before International Day of the Girl and Plan has released a major new report called Still We Dream, talking about the experiences of young people living through conflict. We interviewed 10,000 people for this piece. I’m really keen to talk to you because of your experience coming from Afghanistan and I wondered if you could start off by telling me a little bit about your childhood in Afghanistan and what you remember from that time.
Lena: Yes, definitely. I grew up in Afghanistan and I was there until I was about six, and the memories that I find that I recall are quite mixed. I remember my childhood being quite amazing. On one hand, I had great parents and amazing siblings, and I was in a great household with lots of support. Afghanistan is a truly beautiful country and if you ever get to visit it, you can see that. And then I think on the other side, there’s [such] apparent divides. Women are treated like second class citizens.
I think that it is quite significant, when a six year old can see that from that perspective. And that was my experience in Afghanistan. Even as a young kid, I think there’s a lot that your parents do try and hide, they try not to show you that side of Afghanistan: the conflict, the poverty, the homelessness that have come from years of war and corruption.
Susanne: I was interested in how that conflict in Afghanistan impacted on you and your feelings and experiences of safety – talking about how your parents, they tried to shield you from that… were you aware that your safety was at risk or that there was something going on?
Lena: Yeah, definitely a big motivation for my parents to come to Pakistan and to be able to then go to a western country was to have safety for their daughters. I’m one of four daughters in my family and I think that was a big thing for my parents and they obviously had talked to us a little bit about it. That conversation between each other about how obviously it’s time to leave. Afghanistan is quite a dangerous country where women are not able to clearly voice out their opinions and to have jobs. That was a big motivation for my parents to come to Australia. [For me as a child] I think one of the [most striking] things is the blue cover, that covers the woman from top to bottom. You can’t see anything, not even their eyes. I [remember as a child thinking about the] big symbolism of that and how women are invisible in Afghanistan. That’s what you see from a young age, that is the norm.
Susanne: Your parents didn’t want you to be erased in that way. They wanted you [and your sisters] to have that opportunity to be yourselves. Lots has been written about the Taliban’s decree around education and girls not being able to go to school. You mentioned to me just getting off the school bus… I’m interested in your views on that, and the situation for your family or friends who haven’t left Afghanistan.
Lena: It’s a very sad thought to be honest. I do have friends and family still there, and it’s hard because for many women, their education [has been ripped away]. Education such an important thing for them, it is a lifeline, and that’s their way to get out of the house and be able to have a job and a career and feel empowered, because [there is no representation in terms of] politics or being a diplomat, they don’t see themselves in those careers because it is not the norm.
[If they don’t have the lifeline of education] it’s just staying at home or getting forced into early marriage and having all these responsibilities at home. And I know Afghan women are super ambitious, and they’re incredible people.
Afghan women are incredible.
So right now, without education, most girls do not have much hope for their future. And so it has such an impact on mental health, and I know that’s an issue that is discussed as well in the Plan International Australia report Still We Dream…they’ve discussed a lot about different countries where girls are at war and are not in school and the mental health issues that comes with that. But I want to say, there’s still hope. There are many small grassroots organisations in Afghanistan where women are very, very determined. They’re still, you know, holding classes, inside their homes and things like that.
Susanne: Secret schools?
Lena: Yes, and it just shows the sheer determination in Afghan women and the fact that no matter how much they try to silence our voices or stop us and make us seem invisible, that there’s women out there who are trying to push.
Susanne: I was really struck by what you said about education, not just being, you know, a way to advance yourself, your skills, your work and your autonomy, but also a way to make friends and be social and to be connected and how distressing it might be to be isolated and not able to just hang out with people your own age.
Lena: Yeah, absolutely
Susanne: The most recent decree that has determined that women and girls cannot even speak in public – I’m really interested in your thoughts around that. It’s an extension of the things we’ve been talking about and it’s so metaphoric, isn’t it, to say you can’t even use your voice?
Lena: I don’t know where it comes from to be honest. Women not being able to speak doesn’t come from our religion, or our culture. It is gender apartheid. And I think something else that’s very important to mention is the fact that three years ago when the Taliban took over, all the media were all over Afghanistan. And I think over the past three years, there’s just been no engagement; we haven’t heard from Afghan women; we haven’t seen it much on mainstream media. [And this latest decree] has put some attention back on Afghanistan’s women, and we have seen a platforming of their voices on social media. But it is hard to grapple with, that there had to be even harsher policies enacted for the world to hear and see Afghan women and pay attention.
Susanne: I was inspired by and really motivated by seeing videos of Afghan women reciting poetry and singing either on their own or collectively as an act of defiance of that decree, you know, covering themselves, but nevertheless singing, singing and continuing to sing. I’m interested in the people in your life that have inspired you?
Lena: I would definitely say it’d be the woman in my life. My mom grew up in Afghanistan. She was there during the Taliban time and I think her perseverance and the woman she is, is a big inspiration for me. I think even my sister, she’s a few years older than me and she’s absolutely incredible. And I think every Afghan woman goes through their own struggles, and I think looking [through that lens] generally inspires me every single day, going to school. The fact that education has been such a big part of our lives, that we go to school everyday. I think about that [privilege] every single day, and those Afghan women – they’re my motivation to be able to change the world and to have a platform, to show the world that Afghan women do exist; they have their own ideas and perspectives and opinions, and that they deserve to be there.
So I would say all Afghan women are my biggest inspirations and the reasons I step up to advocate and campaign for equality.
Susanne: That is very inspiring. When you know what they’re up against, that people continue to make that decision to defy the laws. I’m interested whether you have a message for girls just like you, perhaps around the world, from Gaza to Sudan to Lebanon or Myanmar, living through conflict situations in the way that we’ve just discussed. Is there a message you’d like to five or a call out to them?
Lena: I would love to say to every girl and women in conflict areas at the moment to keep dreaming and to keep believing in yourself because there are people who are hearing your voices, who are hearing your cries and who truly believe in you. Try to do what you love to do, if you can, and I know that it must be so hard where you are and you’re going through so many different struggles and challenges and I definitely I feel you.
I want you to know there are women out there who are fighting for you, who will continue to fight for you.
Susanne: That’s a beautiful message. I was really struck by that because I was in Cambodia last week and just meeting young women who are impacted by poverty. One of the things I really observed was that poverty doesn’t just diminish your circumstances, but it can diminish your imagination as well. So this idea of being able to keep alive your dreams, and the knowledge that organisations like Plan International Australia are in solidarity with you… that there are people all over the world trying to make a better world and that girls and children and innocent civilians are not alone, and that we too are calling for peace and for justice, and that we’re doing that together, that this is intergenerational. So I take hope in that too, Lena. And in your story. And I’m so excited to see where you end up and what you’re able to do with your voice and your brain and your heart. Thank you for talking to me today.
Lena: Thank you so much, it’s been amazing Susanne, and I truly hope that women and girls in conflict and war do hear us, and they have that hope that there is change and that it’s going to be coming very soon.
Read Plan International Australia’s latest State of the World’s Girls report, titled Still We Dream: Girls and young people living through conflict.